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Is Now the Time to Talk Gun Control?

Does the massacre at Newtown, Conn., signal the need for a political debate on gun regulations?

 

Before officials had even held their first press conference Friday, Facebook was abuzz with status updates about the Newtown, Conn., massacre. The statuses were split between those sending their condolences and those asking if the country would finally deal with the issue of gun control.

Some fought back, asking for "respect" and mourning before political debate began. Others remained fierce in their belief that stricter gun control regulations would have prevented such a mass killing, saying the victims were shot multiple times and with semi-automatic weapons, according to Fox News.

The guns were not illegal and were, in fact, owned by the shooter's mother. Among them were a semi-automatic .223 caliber Bushmaster rifle and two handguns. Those who knew Nancy Lanza said guns were a hobby of hers.

Should the massacre in Newtown be the tipping point for political debate on gun control? Is there a need for stricter regulations? Or do we need more sweeping reform — like, as The Economist editorialized, "The Gun Control That Works — No Guns." Tell us why in the comments.

Related Topics: Sandy Hook, assault weapons, and gun control

christine

11:31 am on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

I think we need to look at the state of our mental health system and the fact that emotionally disturbed people are walking and living among us with absolutely no daily help or guidance because they slip through the cracks and we cater to alcohol and drug addicts while these people are just handed new medicine to try!

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Edgar Allan Bro

12:09 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

How do you plan to discover emotionally disturbed people, considering a majority of them don't seek help? Also, how will you determine the threshold between mental stability and instability?

You also made the distinction between the emotionally disturbed and addicts. You do realize that addicts are also emotionally disturbed, correct?

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Thomas J Burke

12:35 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

You are 100% correct. The sick and their families have no where to turn. The only option left to them is prison. We closed the State Hospitals here they could commit themself when they felt an episode of insanity coming on. All we talk about are the helpless people put out on the street to be homeless. There used to be many highly functioning people who committed themself for several days a few time per year. year for

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Guest

11:58 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

The issue is not the firearm used to exact the evil act at Sandy Hook, but the people firing those firearms here. What we cannot protect ourselves from is the mentally unstable, particularly youth who are isolated and immersed in violent video games and stylized violence of Hollywood. Firearms are legal under the 2nd amendment of the constitution. The intent of that amendment was not to provide firearms merely for sport hunting, but in deed to arm a populace against govt tyrany. Careful thought and conscientious debate regarding any restrictuions of firearms among the people must be outside of politics and the emotions of events like Sandy Hook School. While we grieve the evil perpetrated on those innocents, we must not loose sight of the over politicization of the event. President Obama is using his address at the school in two youtube ads seeking political contributions. This is over the pale. Anti-gun groups are stirring the emotions in attempts to garner support for gun lobby efforts. Hopefully an honest and unbiased open debate will take place - a discussion that includes of the factors of our cultural coarsening of film and video entertainment and its impact on personal behaviors. Anything short of that is sheer folly and nothing more than a quick fix to a very complex set of issues.

DanielleWolf

11:53 am on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

I'm sorry but if his mother wasn't advocating for him then how could anyone else? We clearly don't know the whole story but as little details emerge, she knew enough to not want him to be left alone, yet she herself taught him how to use an assault rifle. I agree the mental healthcare system is broken, but in my opinion no one needs to posses a semi-automatic weapon intended for mass killings unless you are a soldier in a war.

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Terraformer

2:19 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Do you know if the mother wasn't advocating for him to get help? This country's mental health system is a rather binary proposition. If you have not proven you are dangerous, there are no services to advocate for. That's the problem. Here is something written a few years ago.
http://www.cato-unbound.org/2012/08/22/the-editors/letters-a-libertarians-proposal-to-reform-involuntary-commitment/

J.Yuma

11:53 am on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Christine, You are correct. This kid was troubled and here is where we might part company.
People will call me a dinosaur, but the institutions that molded society - Church, Family and community are devalued in society.
My Mom stayed home and raised us and my Dad worked, but today, women are told the corporate career is the ideal goal, not to birth and nourish infants, which they are designed to do by nature.
Forget any mention of God or spiritual mentoring, that is looked down on by our American Idol "enlightened" culture.
So here is a kid, isolated, playing violent video games , who's Mother, in an effort to "bond" with him, takes him to a gun range.
When we talk of mental health issues, everything is on the table,- but this is difficult and uncomfortable for society to confront these issues, so instead, it's,..oh, yeah, guns are the problem -and a real opportunity to learn and address these issues - is missed.

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Suzanne B

1:48 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Dinosaur indeed...somehow it always comes down to being women's fault. The bible says it and so do you. I know, let's take them out of the workplace, remove all of their rights to choose what they do with their lives and turn them back into chattel whose only purpose is being broodmares. Even better, make sure they have to cover themselves from head to toe so as to not tempt the lascivious natures that are the natural part of the behavior of men. Going back to the stone age and what is deemed the "natural" behaviors and roles for men and women is definitely the answer.

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Michael Quinlan

4:34 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Suzanne B seems prejudiced against Islam. Should gun control apply to Muslims?

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Daniel

9:55 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

According to your logic John if women were designed by nature to be baby making machines then it would follow that Men are designed by nature to spread their dna far and wide so one of the institution you have decided is important to our society, Marriage and Family would never exist. In this day and age most women work because that is the only way they can feed their families as single income households are not the norm anymore. I know this was a digression from the topic but I had to address this first as your logic was faulty.

Mental health care in this country is deplorable and while guns are not THE problem, guns are inanimate objects, they need people to be used, Guns are most definitely part of the problem. The only people who believe this is not the time to discuss gun issues believe this because they know the parents of the murdered children in Newtown would not agree with their opinions. Now IS the time to talk about this, before the horror fades, before we as a nation once more forget.

John Buba

12:07 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

The WSJ has an article today (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323723104578185271857424036.html) It says there were:

o 18 random mass shootings in the 1980’s
o 54 in the 1900’s
0 87 in the 2000’s

So as gun control became more and more strict, it had no impact on these terrible crimes; hence this is not about gun control. We have enough gun laws.

What we need to do is reform the laws regarding who can and cannot be “put away” before they do harm to themselves or others. Since the Liberals (or Progressives or Democrats) greatly relaxed the laws regarding committing individuals to institutions in the 70’s; it is virtually impossible to put these potential mass murderers away UNTIL they actually harm someone. In almost all cases of mass shootings the people around the perpetrator knew something was “wrong” with the person, but could not do anything.

Fixing these laws is where we need to begin.

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drew from salem

12:40 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

So you want to undo the damage that Ronald Reagan's cuts to mental health care did? Great! With enough funding, we can be sure that everyone who needs help can get.

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Terraformer

2:20 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

And that article has already been discredited by people who actually know what they are talking about.
http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/17/are-mass-shootings-becoming-more-common

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Terraformer

2:43 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Actually Karen C., that's only when you count suicides in the mix. Nationally 17K kill themselves with a gun and 14K are killed by homicide. That split makes states with lower suicide rates look much better on a "gun death" statistic but when you focus on gun homicides, these great low death count states fall into the mid pack.

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john

7:20 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Conn. has some off the strictest gun laws in the country.

Splice

12:19 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Now is not the time to discuss this issue. Allow some dignity for the dead. The politicians are disgusting as they stand on their soap boxes and do their spin.

I have strong opinions but will hold them for now and let the parents bury their children.

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Peter Phillips

12:22 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

To the original question...YES, reforming gun laws should be a top priority in this country.

There is an old NRA saying, "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Bunk!
People do kill people, and they usually do it with guns. My humble opinion is that no one needs a gun except for possibly law enforcement and military.

It's time to make it nearly impossible for civilians to own and carry a gun.

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Splice

12:55 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Typical, shortsighted reply to the problem. Why create more gun-free killing zones? I won't get involved in this dialogue because the grieving needs to be done first.

HDS

12:47 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

To quote Chris Rock...we don't need to control guns, we need to control bullets.

And for the record. Yes, it is time to talk gun control. We do need to consider our mental health services. Women are definitely not told that the corporate career is the ideal goal. And the "Liberals" alone are not to blame for greatly relaxed laws regarding committing individuals to institutions...

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John B Goode

1:08 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Many mothers and fathers want their children to mainstream and will give their children leeway for a variety of problems. Some will serve them alcohol, some will let them drive. The problem isn't just children being allowed to do things, we have a larger population of elderly driving and the registry assisting them through the test. Noone wants to be the enforcer for standards. We've created a society which has torn down the barriers to privledge and called everything a rite.
You could ban every gun and still people will die from alcohol, motor vehicles, knives, chemicals, explosives. You'll be busy wasting your time making laws for people that don't understand, respect, or pay attention to them.

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Edgar Allan Bro

1:08 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

I'm beginning to believe that if guns were banned, this tragedy would have been avoided. Here's why: the mother kept five guns in the house and knew that her son was suffering from a mental illness. She even warned a former baby sitter "not to turn his back on Adam", implying her awareness of Adam's unpredictable behavior. An intelligent and forward thinking parent would have removed the guns at the first sign of mental disorder.

Even if guns were banned, there is a chance that Adam could have purchased a gun illegally. But, because he was anti-social, it is highly unlikely that he would be able to find a willing salesman.

I believe a ban on guns would be effective in keeping them out of the hands of the deranged like Adam Lanza. However, determined killers, namely gang members, will still find ways to buy guns regardless of a ban.

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Michael Quinlan

4:40 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

A gun safe would have been advisable.

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Richard

8:39 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

If he was that disturbed, what makes you think he would not drive a car through the play ground at recess and do just as much damage in as little time.
It truly is not the gun, and to take them from law abiding citizens is foolish.
If you have to wait for the police, this is what happens. They are not and cannot be there and every where when you need them.
The reason this guy stopped, was because he knew the guns where coming.

J.Yuma

1:08 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Spice, You may want to contact Bloomberg, Reid, Feinstein and all the other politicians who could not wait to politicize this tragedy and make it about their own agenda.

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Saber Walsh

7:55 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Sad, but very true. One of O-Man's handlers, Rahm, always said, "Never let a good crisis go to waste," and gun control is the best revenge against the NRA's efforts to ruin his re-election hopes while keeping the noise down about Libya and "Fast and Furious" at bay.

Brilliant.

Buzz

1:50 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

So called gun control is not the answer. In fact, I'm appalled that this topic has overtaken the talk of the families and victims. Banning guns would do squat. We have millions of guns of all sorts in circulation and its a waste of time to come back to the useless topic of "gun control". Don't waste time on something that wont work (and is unconstitutional). What we need to be talking about is improving the mental health care system and delivery of care to those that need it.

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John Buba

2:07 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

England has banned all guns and has one of the highest rates of crimes with guns in the world.

And by the way you can't ban guns with a law; you need to ban guns with a constitutional amendment. Even the Assault Weapons ban only bans 100 out of 1000 possible guns and even when the old AW ban was in effect the number of mass murders increased. See my comment above..

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Terraformer

2:24 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Not to mention, the tragedy in Norway was done with the "ruger ranch rifle" and a low capacity handgun. Mag changes are easy when you have a "captive audience" who have no means to fight back. Note also that the person created a bomb out of fertilizer and diseal fuel. The same combo used in OK city. I don't hear people seeking to ban diesel fuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

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drew from salem

4:17 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

You are incorrect. The UK has a low rate of gun crime.

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Sandra

11:23 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

John-

Where did you get your information? Every site I've investigated states just the opposite. England has a very low instance of gun related crimes/deaths.

Terraformer

2:27 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

I also want to point out that the picture attached to this article is a low capacity firearm like the one used in Norway and which is not being discussed as something that needs to be banned. Additionally, the 10 GAP glock the Newtown shooter used is a so called low capacity firearm.

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davidb

4:13 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Glocks are already banned from being sold in mass. Check your facts. Not illegal to own but you cannot buy them in mass.

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SJBarnard

8:45 am on Monday, December 24, 2012

Wrong david b, you can purchase some Glock models in Mass.

windpower

3:00 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Quick quiz How many rounds can a semi-auto gun shoot per min. ?

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Terraformer

3:06 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

It's an absurd question which ignores the reality. The shooter had 20 minutes before police got there. He only got off a 100 rds. That's 5 rounds per minute. When you have people held captive by your presence, it doesn't matter how many rounds per minute.

Think about it this way, JFK was killed by a man who shot 3 rounds at 150+ yards at a moving target over 6 seconds. Do you really think grandpa's hunting rifle at close range is not capable of firing enough rounds to kill a bunch of people huddled up together?

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Terraformer

3:18 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

PS: Cite for the 20 minutes http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/12/us/sandy-hook-timeline/?hpt=hp_c2

Also, here is what you can do in a minute with moderate skill and pace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pbwSvfG4PY&feature=player_embedded

Lastly, I would ask you. Is the 11th person to die so much more important than the first 10? If not, why is 10 acceptable and 11 not? Here is why. There is no distinction. After 911 we didn't ban box cutters, we focused on security on planes where before they had focused on weapons. All anyone is asking for is for us as a society to start focusing on security and not weapons because anything can be a weapon.

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Chris Helms

3:08 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Hi, this is Chris Helms, associate regional editor for Patch on the North Shore. I just wanted to thank folks in this thread so far for arguing responsibly, citing sources with links, etc.

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Terraformer

4:09 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

I am just glad they allow links. Some places kill the links because of spam.

BTW: Someone asked for the cite on the firearms homicides v. suicides in an email but I don't see the post to respond. Below is the most easily accessible and it's properly cited from there and based on the FBI's records. There was another question in that email but I deleted it thinking the post was here and I don't remember it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

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Karen C.

4:43 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Terra.--I deleted my original question since it seemed I was responding to another person's post. My question was if suicides that are part of murder-suicide crimes are counted separately in your statistic--I think they are not, looking at the Wikipedia link? I question whether the conclusion is valid if these are not counted as part of the homicide figures.

Bill

3:53 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

I'd rather talk about guns getting into the hands of the mentally ill. That is the real issue.

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Bridget Russo

3:56 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

"Is Now the Time to Talk Gun Control?" - I think the answer is no. I think now is the time to gather as a community and figure out what we can do for these poor families that just lost their little angels. Each time I see Newtown in the news I think of our little close knit community because both are so similar. Many of these families have other small children to take care of, to cook for, to clean up after on top of mourning and burying their precious victims of this heinous crime. So I say now is the time to ask what you can do - pray for their souls, pray to God to give the parents and siblings strength to carry on, donate to any of the many charities popping up or go to the Newtown Patch and see what is needed for this community. It hasn't even been a week yet and political issues are already popping up while these families with holes in their hearts are needing our help.

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John Buba

4:48 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Something to think about: Obama's kids have ARMED GUARDS (the Secret Service) at school protecting them all the time. So while he feels your pain; he does not share your worry.

If all weapons are banned as he hopes; will Obama remove these guards from his kids? After all, banning guns will solve the problem right?

So maybe armed guards in the school are not such a bad idea? It is good enough for Obama.

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drew from salem

8:55 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Your scenario fails a basic test of logic. The children of the President are not the same as the children of the rest of America. This is true regardless of political party. If you wish to afford your kids the same level of protection, consider running for President.
But if you'd like to extend the same level of protection to schools, let's do it. There are roughly 100,000 public schools in the US. Let's say that a team of 7 guards would cost each school 1 million dollars a year for salary, benefits, insurance, and so on.
That's only 10 billion a year! It's estimated that US citizens own 270,000,000 guns. So let's charge gun owners 40 bucks per gun per year to pay for the program.

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john

7:11 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Why are the presidents kids any different then mine? Oh right they are not. So if I feel I need to carry to protect mine I will. If all gunns are banned then obama doesn't need to worry about anyone shooting his kids.

Richard Smith

5:05 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Focusing on the gun is a distraction from real solutions to protect kids from these types of attacks. We have a gazillion gun laws yet the rate of these mass murders increases. Not all of them are done with guns either. In fact the largest number of chldren killed in a school attack was with bombs in Michigan decades ago. Changing gun laws only changes the weapon of choice, It's dumb to even start there.

People here have commented on the mental health system. That needs attention. THere are reports surfacing that the Newtown Nut ( I refuse to use his name) was on psychotropic drugs. These drugs are known to have side effects including increased aggression and suicide especially among adults under 25. There are also reports that the Newton Nut's mother was about to have him committed and that he was schizophrenic.

Security at schools is worse than most peoples' homes. Security of the classroom is even worse. Adding deadbolts etc. would protect far more children than any gun law.

Another step to take to reduce gun crime is to decriminalize drugs. I don't know what the % is but I'd be willing to bet it is a high % of crimes with a gun are a result of drugs - either users or trafficers.

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J.Yuma

5:30 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Focus on what's in the heart,..not what's in the hand.

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bobhc2

6:55 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

I am a mental health professional and a supporter of firearms rights! The evil comes from the person behind the gun! We didn't lobby to take all the airplanes away when terrorists slammed them into the trade towers. We didn't ban Ryder trucks after the Oklahoma city Bombing. We need to re-thinkg how we treat mentally ill individuals and how we let severly mentally ill people on the streets. This mother should have had her guns locked up tight when not in use, but with this kid reportedly having aspergers syndrome he most likely had a very high IQ and even if he did not have a gun he might have build a bomb or drove a dump truck and did the same horrible devastation! So I please ask people don't blame the guns keep them from people who should not have them!

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drew from salem

9:02 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Glad to see someone else who denies the rote spiel that the 2nd Amendment is there to prevent tyranny! After all, evil comes from the person behind the gun, so guns don't enter into the equation when stopping tyrants.

Also, thank you for your input as a mental health professional. I'm sure that all the parents of children with Aspergers will be happy to know their kids have a very high IQ! That would sound like a totally made up statement, but coming from some random internet commenter claiming to be a mental health professional, it's good to get some grounding.

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john

7:12 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Since you are an expert please explain what the 2nd amendment allows for.

J.Yuma

7:41 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Let's take away all the guns in society - starting with the criminals,...Good luck!

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Simon Vaughn Markham

8:04 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

^ Dump Trucks, Fertilizer, Ryder trucks etc.. whatever it may be; have a purpose outside of killing. Trucks drive, Fertilizer fertilizes, and obviously misusing things can lead to bad consequences. Guns on the other hand, when properly used, kill. That's what they do. They kill living things. They don't double as a CB radio or some type of Shoe horn, they are used for and invented for strictly KILLING or if not, injuring. Who they are intended for is apples and oranges once you realize they are ONLY for KILLING. When you buy a gun you buy it with the intention of eventually shooting somebody/something with it, I doubt the older folks buy a gun just for looks. There is some type of motive related to it. Nobody has ever in history used a gun to heal a wound or to call the police with. It is an instrument of death. Regardless of how the gun gets directly to the hands of the bad guy, it was originally manufactured in a factory somewhere, in a place where they make weapons for killing. I am not a fan of any type of killing. Afraid of people breaking into your house? Get a trained shutzhund german shepherd if you really feel as you need some form of protection. Having a gun invites the idea of killing, its not the 1800s anymore where people have to guard their farms from local scavengers, we now have modern devices such as alarms, locks, cameras, phones. But I guess youre only safe if you can KILL something.

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Sandra

11:22 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

Thank you. Whenever I bring up this argument, seems as though I'm the only one who sees it. At least someone else getst the lack of connection between other devices that have "killed" and guns.

Guns are made solely to kill, that is their intent. Trucks, fertilizers, planes, etc, are merely tools that are being misused beyond their intent. They can't be compared to a device that was invented for death.

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Saber Walsh

9:13 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

Umm... do your research. Most of the gun purchases of late have been more of the competition/target style guns which are designed to be lower power (so you can work faster on targets) and would never be taken for hunting or personal protection. It's interesting that these are not legal in Massachusetts, but competitive shooting has been the biggest area of growth lately. The "assault rifles" (which would never be used in an assault) are popular with Gulf War vets because that's what they know, just like their grandparents knew the M1 Garands from WWII and Korea.

Every adult citizen in Switzerland gets one of these "oooooh they're scary looking assault rifles", and they don't have these issues. Why? Because we have become so in-tune with death in our country, from the TV shows to the video games, we've marginalized the mentally ill and don't give them services, and we offer "soft targets" everywhere and refuse to put police officers where we need them (probably because we are spending that budget on EBT cards that can be used at strip clubs).

So instead of the "bar fight" that O-Man and his media has started amongst us, why don't we look to law enforcement, who knows a lot about these weapons and the people behind them, to fix this instead of the same people who are killing us with Obamacare? Why can't we just talk with facts and what we know, instead of fiction and what we feel?

Dave Gray

8:10 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Years ago, high capacity semi-auto weapons were a rarity. Revolvers were what you saw the most of and they have a capacity of 5 or 6 rounds. They are also much more difficult to reload, especially quickly. I can shoot as fast with a semi-auto pistol as I can with a semi-auto long gun - about 2 rounds per second. The only difference is: 1. in the damage caused by due to the much higher muzzle velocity and the design of the bullet, and 2. the effective range. In Newtown, I suspect neither of those made much of a difference.

I would offer that "smartgun" technology might have prevented Adam Lanza from shooting anyone, and I would advocate immediate passage of legislation that makes "smartgun" tehnology mandatory.

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Saber Walsh

9:58 pm on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

Truth is, a revolver can be reloaded in seconds using clips -- there are many "wheel gun" shooters who compete faster than "black scary" semi-auto pistol shooters do. And revolvers don't jam.

The semi-auto rifle as used in Connecticut helps crappy shooters get more accuracy, and since it is a much more stable platform, you can also get more rounds off. You should Google "3 gun" and watch the competitions and learn.

If he had some grandfather's rifle from WWII in his hands he would have gotten the same result, and probably worse since those rounds can penetrate a whole lot more than the modern rifles can: contrary to popular media mysticism, modern semi-auto rifles (which are really never used for assaults) are lower powered than what our ancestors used, and are black and "scary looking" because they had to be 1) less capable of giving away your position, so they are black, and 2) dirt cheap to produce. REAL "assault weapons" are not available on the streets -- period.

"Smart Gun" technology works only in the mind of the academically cloistered, technologically challenged humanities major. It has a long way to go before it could be safely implemented ANYWHERE. Sort of like the flying car.

Most law enforcement officers I know agree: they aren't scared by the weapon nearly as much as they are by the shooter, and the shooter who goes to a soft target like a school or theater usually has "nothing to lose" programmed in their minds. There is nothing scarier.

J.Yuma

8:23 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Dave, I meant the previous post by one Simon, not yours.

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Wallace McKenzie

8:41 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Several variations of this thought on the internet.

One failed shoe bomb, and we take off our shoes; 31 school shootings since Columbine, and no change in our regulation of guns.

We need a leader on this issue.

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john

7:14 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

What changes would you like to make that would have prevented this tragedy?

J.Yuma

9:05 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Hitler was a leader on this, he wanted no guns for his victims, only his soldiers and those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
All I here are sheep and collaborators who would drop to their knees when told to,...cowards.

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drew from salem

9:15 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Glad to see another patriot who wants higher wages for teachers! I agree with you that we should double the wages of all our educators who could potentially stand in the line of fire between a madman and our kids.
That's what you are talking about, right? Because even the most dedicated enthusiast's weapons cache would last long against a tank or even a drone attack. I mean, the government even has these new things called missiles!

christine

9:37 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Several variations to this thought in our treatment of mentally ill patiants who have expressed Suicidal or homicidal thoughts either with a plan or without, Its called a section 12 and many are written daily on individuals. I also would like to mention it is a system with a revolving door many people have had this section 12 numerous times over and over again they go in and out of care.

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Ed

12:43 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

If stricter gun control is the answere to all of our problems then we should also bann the ability for fat people to use spoons as spoons make people fat. We should also bann stupid people the ability to use pens, for if we did that, then stupid people could not misspell words...
The answere is not in gun control..."Locks only keep the honest people out." Anti Gun legislation only regulates the lawful citizens. The answere lies with in educating the local populations about weapon safety, family values, and the support for mental health care. All approaches, nothing to do with weapons other than the FACT that such preventative maintenance reduces the chance for troubled kids to enter the fray.

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JOHN CAHILL

8:37 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE --- PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE

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Rebel With A Cause

8:57 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

We have a rooming house in Swampscott that is our new version of mental hospitals where the next crazy person that makes national news may come from.

The police know about it, the owners know about it, but no one does anything about it. Most of these people should be locked up under supervision. They are barely functional, but they are supported by so many government agencies with no accountability.

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JOHN CAHILL

9:02 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

genetic is the answer dont let mental sick people have children they are mental and they pass it on

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Carolyn Costain

11:45 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

OMG John, if people thought like you years ago than I don't think you would even be here to write such a comment.

J.Yuma

9:19 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Nothing but knee - jerk reactions here from liberals who hate the Constitution and want it gone and replaced by a Federal government with more power and control over it's citizens - incredibly dangerous and naive.
We need common sense and practical approaches now.

But remember, Evil can never be overcome in this world,...it can only be resisted.

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JOHN CAHILL

11:13 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

back in 1692 most people had mental problems witches flying around on brooms and looking at you and making you sick they were hung in back of walgreens on boston st but we dont teach history about that it might hurt someones feelings the witch trial was held in danvers not where the sheriff lived these mental problems were passed on up to date

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J.Yuma

11:15 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

What happened in Conn. was a tragedy, but no one has yet to address my comment regarding liberal hypocrisy regarding thousands of black on black gun murders that happen every year in the US - no tears from Obama or liberal media or calls for gun control,- sheer hypocrisy.

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J.Yuma

11:27 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

St. Patrick's day weekend in Chicago, a 1 and a half year old boy was shot through the door and killed with as AK 47 and his killer was never found and that was only one of several murders that occurred that weekend and no one on the left batted an eye - no candle light vigils, no outrage - nothing.
Hypocrites

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drew from salem

1:34 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

First, it was six year old girl who was killed. Her name was Aliyah Shell.
http://www.suntimes.com/11392878-417/10-dead-at-least-39-others-wounded-in-weekend-violence.html
Second, the two teenage members of a local gang were arrested and charged with the crime.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/03/18/two-teens-charged-in-shooting-death-of-6-year-old/
Third, there was a memorial peace rally in her memory held on March 20th.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chicagocoldwar/6855461482/

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Michael Berry

4:57 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

And Chicago has some of the MOST restrictive gun laws on the book. How they working?

drunkpatti

1:49 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Maybe less women and pm's.......plus how about the people that I promise billeted the kid........society lives getting there thrills bullying but no one likes the result of there own evil

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JOHN CAHILL

4:08 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

THIS PLANET IS 8 BILLION YEARS OLD 6 BILLION MORE BEFORE ITS GONE WE ONLY LIVE TO ABOUT 8O PLUS A WOMAN IN FRANCE LIVED TO 122 YRS WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE

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Tangence

6:05 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Speaking as someone with a serious mental illness and family with mental illnesses I find many statements in these posts offensive and ignorant. Many people with mental illness receive help and function within society. The majority of us do not kill anyone and suffer from the stigmatism that an incident like this causes. There are many who suffer who fall through the cracks. Stop generalizing about the 2nd amendment and stereotyping the mentally ill. This is a terrible tragedy and to make up scenarios about what to do and who to blame is ridiculous since all of the facts are not in. You want to change something? Write your congressman or representative. Join advocacy groups for what you believe in - we all have things to disagree on and argue about but really shouldn't this be a time where we can exist in solidarity and just mourn together in a terrible tragedy? Who needs all this ugliness?

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J.Yuma

6:22 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

I'm off topic but my liberal pals would want t know 3 State Department officials resigned today.
Divide and divert are the tools of the fascist Godless progressive evil left.

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Saber Walsh

8:02 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012

I really think the Patch has done a nice job with this. Today's Salem News was just plain AWFUL between the totally incorrect information about the issues and the nauseating quotes from Tierney. I am becoming a big believer in the world of electronic media, so THANK YOU PATCH!

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J.Yuma

9:31 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012

When there is robust debate and many opinions are heard, society benefits,...this is to be encouraged, not feared.

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JOHN CAHILL

12:11 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

keep the guns just ban the bullets

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Sean Ward

6:02 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

It is interesting to see how people can have complete opposite thoughts on this topic. Some say ban guns. Some say we need more guns. I can see the logic on both sides. My first reaction was to wish someone at the school was armed. Other peoples reaction is that they wish nobody was armed. The problem I see with the second idea is that it is impossible. Criminals will always find a way to get guns because they are criminals. If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns. Are we expected to just die while we wait 20 minutes for the police to arrive? How are we expected to defend ourselves in that 20 minutes?

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J.Yuma

6:36 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Law abiding gun owners practice gun safety and they don't want unstable people having guns as much as anyone else.

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Sandra

11:30 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

Evidently not, as the Newtown shooter got his guns from his mother. She was a "law abiding gun owner", but obviously didn't pracitce gun safety. Had she had them locked up where he couldn't get at them, it may have changed how that day went down.

Simon Vaughn Markham

8:30 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Yea, it would be 100% impossible for a law abiding citizen to suddenly fail to abide by those laws.... lets keep guns around and assume that nobody will EVER do anything illegal or harmful with them as long as they obtained them LEGALLY.

It is 100% safe to say that I fear GUN NUTS far, far more than I fear our government.

Coming from someone who sees things in actual life instead of sitting behind a computer, I know for a FACT that local gun crimes around here (such as armed robbery) involve OTHER gun owners (LEGAL AND NOT). Having a gun invites others to have guns. 2 wrongs have never made a right so far, not sure how GUN NUTS are going to change that.

You guys love your guns to "protect yourself from criminals" but you do NOTHING at ALL to try to keep those criminals from committing the crimes in the first place. Now THAT sounds like a quick fix to a big problem.

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john

9:13 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Does your mother know you are on the computer again?

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Simon Vaughn Markham

9:18 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Does your god know that you preach violence?

Sean Ward

8:35 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

There are plenty of examples of innocent people legally defending themselves with guns.

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Simon Vaughn Markham

9:19 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

And with those, are millions of examples of people legally owning guns, and then ILLEGALLY using them. Yea lets fight fire with fire, that should work!

Simon Vaughn Markham

8:41 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

"Diesel fuel is used sometimes to make bombs why dont they ban it?" -Because diesel feul's MAIN purpose is for running diesel engines on.

"Why dont we make knifes illegal?" They are used for cutting food and other every day items

"The kid who killed the children could have used anything to kill them" -But anything else he used could have been stopped MUCH more easily than a gun.

"If somebody else in the school had a gun on them this would have never happened" -If guns weren't so easily obtainable this would have LITERALLY never happened.

"Law obiding citizens own guns" -Do you know what you call a person up until the SECOND they commit a crime (or devolop criminal intent/malice)????? -"A law obiding citizen".

"Bad guys have guns so I should too" ......Does this mean that you don't want to take the long time staking process to start to disarm these bad guys, but instead just want to walk to the store and buy a killing machine so that you can be "safe".

Good thing that all you old-fashioned gun nuts are slowly being phased out. "Gun control does not solve this countries problems" Sure it doesnt solve all our problems, but it sure helps to TRY to solve our GUN problem.

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Carolyn Costain

12:09 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

Simon, A car can kill! We don't leave our keys in the car, out of fear that a child will drive off and get killed or a thief will take it. "A 2000lb car is a killer and we are responsible for locking up that vehicle. A gun is a killer to in the wrong hands, so its up to the gun owner to lock it up so it don't get into the wrong hands and kill someone. Gun owners should be held "in part responsible" Its the sole responsibility of that "law abiding citizen" to keep that gun locked up and away from the criminal or a child!

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SJBarnard

9:01 am on Monday, December 24, 2012

Simon, you're logic falls flat. Gun ownership by law-abiding citizens who are duly licensed, has exploded since 2008. I don't understand how anyone can believe that banning guns will reduce crime. We don't enforce the gun laws that are in place now. You really think it will get better if we make them illegal? Naive. It's all moot anyway. The right to keep and bear arms is part of our Constitution and nothing you say or do will change that. Thank God for the founding fathers.

Sean Ward

8:42 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

And you clearly misunderstood my comment. It is impossible to get rid of all guns. My comment is not about legal guns. Even if you ban them completely and seize all the registered legal ones there will still be millions of illegal ones. We would have fully armed criminals, armed law enforcement 20 minutes out, and millions of innocent law abiding defenseless targets.

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Simon Vaughn Markham

9:53 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

It is very, very impossible to get rid of all guns when you are creating production for them. That is correct sir. Seizing legal ones would coincide with finding the illegal ones to. But like I said you don't wanna try to eliminate the legal ones. You just want to one-up them with your gun.

Simon Vaughn Markham

8:43 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

p.s. citing religion and old-fashioned female stereo-types sure does not make you look like ANY less of a crazy gun nut

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Sean Ward

8:46 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Ok, so your advice is to just be patient while the police successfully disarm all criminals? Yeah, because they have done such a great job of that so far.

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Simon Vaughn Markham

9:23 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Be patient? No way. Do something about it.

but wait that would require more than buying a shiny gun and touching it when you feel scared.

the reality is you don't want to have to do anything difficult. you want your shiny little buddy to become your ego. I am looking into trying to help the community overcome these issues in any way I can. The "right" to own a gun made a lot more sense when we used to hunt for food and have to hide in houses from redcoats. We now currently have: Alarms, security cameras, and some of use have intelligence even. But then again it would be a lot easier and less time staking to just get a gun

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Simon Vaughn Markham

9:25 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Guns dont kill people, people kill people! (with guns that were made in a factory somewhere to be sold "legally")

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john

9:26 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

What exactly is your point in all of your ranting? You want all guns seized and made illegal? What changes are you looking for? Be specific.

Simon Vaughn Markham

9:39 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

The changes i'm looking for: People to be killed less, It to be less easy for people to be killed, and for more people to live.
Those are the changes i'm looking for. Sorry if they clash with your colonial state of mind. I don't mean to be so futuristic, sorry if I startled you.

If less people being killed means lonely old men don't get to fondle their guns every night; that's fine with me. But that would mean you would have to find a new hobby...

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john

9:40 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

You didn't answer the question. But I am not surprised, that is typical for trolls.

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Simon Vaughn Markham

10:21 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Troll? My full name is used in all my posts, look it up in the phone book and have a full-length conversation with me if you'd like. I can tell you a lot about the habits of "legal gun owners" that get by the law. I can also tell you about how having guard dogs has prevented me from even having to get a gun to make myself feel safe.

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john

10:23 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

I didn't know dogs can stop bullets. Just because you use your full name doesn't make you any less of a troll. I would rather not have a conversation with you. I don't really care for angry liberals.

Simon Vaughn Markham

9:41 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

I'm looking for a better suggestion of how to prevent something like this from happening again other than "Posting people with guns in schools". I'm glad you people are of a dying breed, my children will be taught the evils of guns, instead of being lied to about how much they "help" people.

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SJBarnard

9:07 am on Monday, December 24, 2012

Brilliant. Just what we need, another family raising their children in a bubble where they have no exposure to the realities of the world. that will be helpful.

J.Yuma

9:43 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

"They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, - deserve neither safety nor Liberty" ---- Benjamin Franklin

I am ashamed of some of the comments I have seen here,...those of cowards, appeasers and collaborators.

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Simon Vaughn Markham

10:13 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Temporary safety... is that what you would call reducing murder forever??

If being anti-violent is being a coward, then thats me! If being sexist and racist and trying to solve violence with violence makes you an honorable man, then I am not one.

Simon Vaughn Markham

9:47 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

"Criminals will get guns no matter what" yes they will, especially when its this easy to do so. Start really beefing up the laws?? It won't be as easy for them to get! That f'n simple! The gun that the gang member is shooting people with??? That gun was created in a factory, more than likely in our country.

Do you mean to tell me that if guns were no longer allowed that it wouldnt reduce the availability of a criminal getting a gun? Do you think these gang members machine guns and rifle out barrels themselves???? Or can you CONSIDER that they came from some sort of "legal" gun manufacturer/salesman

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john

9:51 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

What laws need beefing up? I will ask you again, what do you want to be done? Be specific.

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Simon Vaughn Markham

10:03 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

I will tell you again, what I want to be done: effort to make guns less easy for criminals to get, even if it makes it equally as hard for non-criminals. Yes that would involve you having to give up your "personal security" to make it safer for my future children. Yes, I admit it, I care more about our entire countries population than I care about your personal feeling of safety.

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john

10:05 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

You really have a hard time answering a direct question. Let me make it easier for you. Propose a law that you would like to see enacted?

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john

10:07 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

You make a lot of assumptions in here. For one, how do you know I even own a gun? How do you know I don't have an alarm system? Guess what, you don't.

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Simon Vaughn Markham

10:10 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Heres the law: Stop production of guns that are sold to the public. Produce them specifically for military and police only. Keep a close trace on where they're made, who directly receives them, and how they are distributed. Create EXTREMELY harsh punishment for those caught selling/trafficking/illegally possing these weapons. But that could never happen with old-fashioned dinosaurs like you guys. Imagine a world where you actually have to do things yourself without the security of a killing machine in your pocket/home/

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john

10:13 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

If guns are no longer going to be sold to the public or legal for that matter why would police need them?

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Simon Vaughn Markham

10:18 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Police wouldn't "need" them, thats the best part. But they would have them as they are the ultimate authority in our direct community. Believe it or not: I actually would rather put a gun in the hands of a legally trained community protector, rather than a gun nut like you, that is for DAMN sure.

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john

10:20 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Got it. Well there are other countries you can move to that have these types of laws. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Simon Vaughn Markham

10:24 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

There are also remote islands where you and your gun buddies can run around wearing replica s.w.a.t. outfits and compliment eachother on your sweet shiny guns!

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john

10:26 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

And you know I own a gun, how? Right, you don't.

Simon Vaughn Markham

9:49 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

the reality is you gun owners don't want these criminals to be disarmed, you just want to be able to be able to fight back. You would rather play fake cops and robbers than try to keep these weapons out of the criminal hands to begin with! Simple minds create short term solutions instead of thinking of a bigger picture

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SJBarnard

9:09 am on Monday, December 24, 2012

That's a very ignorant comment. Let me guess, you're not from the US are you?

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Sean Ward

9:41 am on Monday, December 24, 2012

Simple is thinking we're going to do a better job disarming criminals than we do now with more laws. Adam Lanza broke many laws that day. They did not stop him. Simple is thinking we can disarm the bad guys by starting with the good guys. Your statement is false. We want the criminals disarmed but we also want to be able to fight back. Bigger picture is mental health care, better defense for soft targets, and harsh sentences for people who let their guns fall into the wrong hands.

Simon Vaughn Markham

9:51 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

In fact, to invest in a gun instead of a burglar alarm gives the OPPORTUNITY oto voilence

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kerstin locherie

3:02 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

If the United States followed Israel, we would have no gun ownership problems or school security challenges. How simple, yet how complex for stupid Americans

http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html

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JOHN CAHILL

9:20 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

YOU CAN NOT TRUST THE FEDERAL GOV THEY MAY TURN ON YOU THAT IS WHY WE HAVE GUNS

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pk

7:17 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

You must have quite an arsenal if you're confident of defending yourself against a government that has Abrams tanks, thousands of fighter jets, nuclear subs, and thousands of nuclear warheads. Good luck in the battle; everyone roots for the underdog!

J.Yuma

9:39 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

Oh wise and just government - please keep me safe, take away all guns and large sodas and trans fat and treat me as a criminal at airports because these decisions are too great for me to make and you should trample individual rights and freedoms to "protect" me from myself and in return, we won't say anything about the NDAA, or Fast and Furious and the Benghazi cover - up and yea, okay, so you can't run anything right and the crushing debt will destroy our children's future, just keep us safe,...please?

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JOHN CAHILL

9:52 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

you voted for him so now you must pay

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J.Yuma

10:55 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

I wouldn't let this government watch my dog.

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gumshoe

3:12 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

taking away the guns isn't gonna stop people from going postal in a twisted dystopian future.

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JOHN CAHILL

11:35 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

a year from now this whole thing will blow over just like the other ones we have to arm schools and stores and malls

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J.Yuma

12:09 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

People will go back to Jersey Shore and American Idol instead of asking tough questions about the society we live in,...until the next tragedy.

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M

3:56 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

I think some are taking a doctoral approach here; trying to treat the symptoms instead of the root problem. The issue isn't gun control. The issue is the person holding the gun. Once we can get to understand why that person did such a terrible thing, and there is always a reason, then we start from there. That is where our work is to be done. Was it poor treatment from parents, losing someone, being hurt repetedly by something etc. We need to come together as humanity and really look at how we are treating people and ourselves. That person with the gun in his hand that shot up the classroom was once one of those innocent young children. What happened to him? Seems like vengeance for a time he felt innocent and unimaginably hurt.

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Sean Ward

4:08 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

Agreed. I've been hesitant to say something because of fear of backlash from this group but I do feel terrible about this shooter too. Imagine the terrible feelings he must have been experiencing probably for months or years leading up to this. Why can't we help people like him before they snap?

JOHN CAHILL

4:35 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

ALL PEOPLE EACH YEAR SHOULD TAKE A MENTAL TEST IF YOU DONT PASS LOCK THEM UP MOST PEOPLE WILL FAIL

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Tom Flannagan

10:23 pm on Sunday, December 23, 2012

Isn't that exactly the type of government you say we need guns to defend against?

john

5:03 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

Maybe we should build schools like prisons, the good people are on the inside and the rest of the world is bad.

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Saber Walsh

7:49 am on Sunday, December 23, 2012

The White House-sponsored bar fight continues. Meanwhile nobody is looking at Libya, Syria, "Fast and Furious," FEMA at Staten Island, or anything else. "The fix" to what happened at that school won't ever come because we are collectively too stupid to figure out the obvious and just do it, but the Bolsheviks will get their gun control.

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gk

9:38 am on Sunday, December 23, 2012

Wow, some of the nonsense spewed in this thread is amazing.

Yeah, let's ban motor vehicles, gasoline, diesel fuel, baseball bats, steak knives, rope, hydrogen peroxide and even water because they can and have all been used to kill people or have died in their use. Really??? That is your rationale??? How about banning from civilians only those objects designed solely for the purpose of killing or injuring human life, and especially those with the ability to do it en masse, such as assault rifles, automatics and semi-automatics, high-capacity clips, bayonets, modern day swords, switch blades, etc.? Leave out the hunting rifles and revolver's for the sportsman. And leave out machette's, hunting knives and the like that actually have been designed for other intentional purposes.

For those of you in fear that our Government is going to turn our Armed Forces and/or Police against us – really? As PK pointed out, you better start stock piling your tanks, drones, nuclear warheads and F22 Raptors because your in for quite the battle.

Come on people.

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john

10:11 am on Sunday, December 23, 2012

Just curious, how is it over there in liberal lala land? Do you guys sit around and eat tofu and sing kumbaya all day long?

You are right we shouldn't ban cars but we should limit them all to 65 mph since going over that is against the law. Why would anyone need to go faster than that?

So you would keep revolvers? I guess if I had 2, 6 shot revolvers I could only kill 12 people instead of 20. Makes sense.

Anyway, good luck with getting rid of the guns in this country.

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gk

2:41 pm on Sunday, December 23, 2012

John, I don't know of the land in which you speak, I don't eat tofu and surely no one wants to here me sing anything.

As for the speed limit, you answered your own question.

And the revolvers? I have no issue with hunters and fisherman carrying them. None. I know plenty that do. But if one feels the need to do the math and ponder it, clearly they should not be allowed to own any type of weapon. Hence, the need to tighten the gun show loopholes, address the mental health issues and further educate on responsible gun ownership.

No need to get rid of all the guns, just the ones solely intended for mass destruction.

J.Yuma

9:49 am on Sunday, December 23, 2012

Mayor Quimby and all the knee jerk dummies from Bloomberg to Hollywood miss the real problem.
God is banned from society, divorce is sky high, a culture that teaches no values at all, ...we need a serious discussion about society's ills including mental health,...but that is too hard - so let's go after guns!

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gk

2:44 pm on Sunday, December 23, 2012

All of your points stated here are a problem and all need to be addressed. All of them.

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Parson Weems

11:05 am on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

Drive around any Town here on the North Shore and you see many places of worship, every town, many different sects and religions. And guess what else you should note? None of them are taxed. That one fact makes it impossible to rationally contend that "God is banned from society". If anything God worship of all sorts is encouraged here in the US. Do you want Christian prayer back in public schools, is "banning God from society" your code for that old war horse? Or are you just parroting Faux News's War on Xmas nonsense. You seem to naturally gravitate to emotionalism and irrationality in your posts which makes it very difficult to take your suggestions, such as they are, seriously.

Euge

11:02 am on Sunday, December 23, 2012

I just started a gun violence petition on the White House petitions site, We the People. Will you sign it? http://wh.gov/Q2v3

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gk

10:10 pm on Monday, December 24, 2012

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all. Keep the conversation going. Regardless of where you stand on this, all sides need to be heard. As always, finding a balance is the key.

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Jason Wachtel

8:42 am on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. That is the full text of the second amendment. I get tired of people dropping the conditions that justify their right that they simply get to keep arms. Unorganized citizens with guns do not constitute a well regulated militia. The second amendment is calling upon a well regulated milita to bring about security, not Rambo, or Charles Bronson. Sandy Hook was a wakeup call for alot of people, myself included. We are all so desensitized to death (for our own sanity) that it took such an agregious act to breach our gaurd and strike us so profoundly. The second amendment has been distorted to allow wholesale stockpiling of tools whose sole purpose is to kill. If you are not personally part of a "well regulated militia", then you should not keep such firearms in your possession. Outside of hunting the roles of self/home defense can be met by other non lethal means. It is time to for people to say enough is enough and start getting firearms off our streets and out of our homes.

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Saber Walsh

10:01 am on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

What's interesting in this is that Switzerland has a closer adherence to our Second Amendment than we do -- all adults are issued rifled (the modern version, what our media calls "assault rifles") and are expected to form up a militia at any time. We don't expect that of our people, but we regulate what are watered-down versions of what the Swiss are issued, but we still have problems -- BIG problems.

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gk

11:26 am on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

Saber, any comparison of Switzerland (about the size of Colorado) in mass, population, society, diversity an/or anything is a bit absurd. From Zurich to St.Moritz to Geneva and back, I've seen plenty of that country and while I love it, it does not compare to the US in any way, shape or form.

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Sean Ward

1:40 pm on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

It is naive to think that the people will never again need to take up arms to form militias. It means you think we are civil war proof, revolution proof, nuclear disaster proof, natural disaster proof, financial disaster proof, and that we will never again in this or any future generation need to defend ourselves or our families. The wake up call I got from this event is that it takes 20 minutes for 911 to respond and in that time the average nutjob can take the lives of 27 innocent defenseless people with weapons that can be obtained illegally no matter how many new laws you put in place. I also know that an armed good guy could have taken him down before he finished blasting his way through the window if there was a small defensive weapon locked up securely in the school's office where only a hand full of trained administrators could get to it.

john

8:53 am on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

Fortunately the supreme court disagrees with you.

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Saber Walsh

9:55 am on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

And the White House sponsored bar fight continues.

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gk

2:09 pm on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

Wow, the article and information posted by The Journal News is sure to stir up some fierce debate. I will not post the link (if that tells you anything) but wonder how people feel about it.

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JOHN CAHILL

7:28 pm on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

maybe we should arm the animals they have a right to live too

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john

7:01 am on Thursday, December 27, 2012

Maybe we should arm the unborn children that the liberals love to kill.

Saber Walsh

10:06 pm on Wednesday, December 26, 2012

Just one thought as the bar fight comes crashing to a halt (thank goodness!)

One of the officers who responded to the scene said something like, "we heard shooting, and we ran toward it." It is believed that the gunman would have had many more victims but knew law enforcement was on the scene, so he took himself out.

Can you believe the heroism involved? We haven't said much about the officers only because it uncovers the uncomfortable truth: soft targets like schools are sitting ducks for whack jobs, terrorists, and disgruntled employees because the shooter is banking on having plenty of time to do whatever they want before they go out in some sick fantasy of "glory."

So as we begin to face the New Year (and our White House pushes us off the Fiscal Cliff [I'd love to see how O-Man counts his strokes on the golf course]), we should thank anybody in law enforcement who could well be the next guy who says, "I saw danger: and I ran right into it."

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Jason Wachtel

10:18 am on Thursday, December 27, 2012

Delusional fantasies of "what if" don't help reality. The 2nd amendment's unorganized militia was so ineffective that Washington lamented the lack of an organized force after the whiskey rebellion and thus the seeds of West Point were penned in a letter to Alexander Hamilton on his death bed. To say that Lanza took his life because the guns were coming is more delusional rhetoric, no on knows why at that point he decided to take his life so stop fantasizing.

Sean Ward

2:58 pm on Monday, December 31, 2012

Delusional fantasies of what if? There are plenty of actual what if situations that occur all the time. Plenty of people have used legal firearms to protect themselves against armed criminals. The media just glosses over these because they are not sensational or controversial. On October 20 th a 12 year old shot a home invader. On Oct 18th a women in Dallas shot one of two home invaders causing the other to flee. I can find you hundreds of these. Reality is you can't fix the Adam Lanza problem by disarming these people who have defended themselves. It is also not a fantasy that he shot himself when he knew the police would be arriving. He didn't want to be taken so he ended his life on his own terms.

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J.Yuma

4:24 pm on Monday, December 31, 2012

Sean, This video shows the anti-gun celebrity phonies for who they are -- priceless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxRlpRcorEU

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gk

6:07 pm on Monday, December 31, 2012

In reading several reports (only 8 of many) of incidents where people have used legal firearms to protect themselves against armed criminals, from New York to California, it appears that in all but one incident a single shot was fired to ward off and/or stop the criminal(s), invader and in one case potential murderer. Two shots were fired by a armed citizen to stop three armed bank robbers.

So, just wondering if any of you pro-gun scribes would be amenable to some type of gun reform law that would allow U.S. citizens a limited number of registered limited capacity clip rifles and/or hand guns? No specific numbers or models of any kind just yet.

And we'll assume, for the sake of this question, that there would also be some type of further steps being taken to address increased security in public soft targets and the "mental illness issues" that inflict many, if not all, of the perpetrators of massacres such as Columbine, Virginia Tech, Aurora and Sandy Hook.

Is there any room for negotiation of the current gun laws and/or 2nd Amendment?

Just wondering?

Happy New Year to all. Here's to hoping we can get through 2013 without one of these types of horrific events.

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gk

2:02 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013

Crickets...Sounds like a NO.

J.Yuma

3:33 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013

GK, As with so many news stories, you get only PC agenda, the reason alternative media is growing fast.
Everyday law enforcement or regular citizens atop tragedy with a firearm, but you will need to search for the truth because you won't find it on the anti gun PC corporate media.

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J.Yuma

7:38 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013

A family friend said the Conn. shooter "just wanted to feel something",...keep blaming guns and not mindless violent video games, isolation and "virtual" friends and wait for the next tragedy to happen.

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gk

9:50 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013

John, I don't believe they are mutually exclusive. Let's address the video games, the isolation and the guns. It has to be all of them.

J.Yuma

10:17 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013

GK, Guns have been around for hundreds of years, but these mass shootings are a recent phenomena, ...guns are not the problem. This kid was isolated and constantly desensitized to killing. In addition, Conn. already has tough gun laws - ineffective.
You must address the problem at the root cause, but to do so would be very uncomfortable for many and may cut into Hollywood's and video game profits.
Here is a website that takes the problem head on.
http://takethechallengenow.net/

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